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POA Interview of Crime Novelist John Lescroart

June 1, 2022
Dennis Bianchi

POA Book Reviewer

Editor’s note: The following interview took place on November 17. 2005 near Mr. Lescroart’s office in Davis, California. At his request, the interview was not published until late January of 2006. The POA is grateful to Mr. Lescroart for the opportunity to sit down with this best-selling crime novelist and discuss his books, his SFPD police characters, and his craft. Soon, the entire, uncondensed interview will be available on our web site. For a complete listing of all of John Lescroart’s books and music, visit his website at www.johnlescroart.com. There are also some excellent reviews of Mr. Lescroart’s work found on Amazon.com. -- RS


Author John Lescroart is a prolific writer of crime novels set in San Francisco. A series of those novels center on the exploits of SFPD officers and inspectors, as well as SF judges, prosecutors, and defense attorneys. Several of Mr. Lescroart’s books have made the New York Times best seller list. A few of his best-selling titles -- featuring San Francisco Police Department Inspector Abe Glitzky and former cop, bartender, Assistant District Attorney and now defense lawyer Dismas Hardy-- are Hard Evidence (1993), Nothing but the Truth (1999), The Oath (2000), The First Law (2003), The Second Chair (2004) and The Motive (2004) . The 13th Juror (1994) is currently in the planning stages of being made into a movie.

Mr. Lescroart’s gift of writing was greatly enhanced with his degree in English Literature from U.C. Berkeley in 1970. John laughingly refers to his overnight success as taking more than twenty-five years. He has spent years compiling an impressive resume: musician, typist, bar tender, but it is as a writer that he has made his mark, with his books being translated into sixteen different languages and published in 75 countries throughout the world.

His newest release, The Hunt Club, leaves Glitzky and Hardy behind as he has created a new set of fascinating characters, led by private investigator Wyatt Hunt and San Francisco Police Homicide Inspector Devin Juhle. Fortunately for us, John has stayed local and the action takes place in San Francisco and the Bay Area. Murder, mystery and the complex criminal justice system keep the action moving and the reader turning the pages.--Dennis Bianchi

Opening statements regarding how I came to interview John and a bit of my background. DB: Well, the editor of The [POA Journal], Ray Shine, is an avid backpacker and was up in Yosemite, somewhere, and was hunkered down in a lightning storm and met a Mrs. John Lescroart and his daughter and said…


JL: (Laughter) Is that how this connection started? That is wild!

DB: Yeah, and when Ray returned he asked if I knew of John Lescroart, the writer and I said, ‘no’ but – well I’ve got to be honest here John,

JL: Yeah, sure.

DB: But maybe my son has because the name sounds familiar, my son reads a lot, but I hadn’t, so I picked up a book, your latest, The Motive, and I realized that there were a lot of characters that you had developed before somewhere, so I went back and bought “Dead Irish” and did a review of that. I liked Dead Irish.

JL: Good, good.

DB: I actually preferred it to The Motive. My wife and I live out in the Sunset and I recognized all the spots you wrote about.

JL: Good, cool.

DB: Well, that’s how this all came together.

DB. Okay. Well, to start with let’s focus on you as a writer and the literary process and then move along to the police department.

JL: Okay.

DB: Who do you like to read?

JL: You know, mostly I don’t read fiction anymore. I guess that’s odd. I had just gotten mostly into reading non-fiction. And I like biographies, I like, you know, I read about presidents and I read about geology

DB: Bill Bryson?

JL: Bill Bryson, or I’d say kind of more, well, right now I’m reading a book about Buffalo Bill and his American Wild West Show. The last one I read was about the San Francisco earthquake, Simon Winchester, A Crack in the Edge of the Earth.

DB: Smith has a new one out on the same subject.

JL: I mean I read a lot of that kind of stuff, mostly. I have a few people, in the field that I’m in, that I love. I love Nelson DeMille, I love T. Jefferson Parker. Have you read him?

DB: No. Not me.

JL: He’s awesome. He’s won the Edgar Award for best mystery novel two years in a row. He’s quite good. Elmore Leonard. Everybody reads Leonard.

DB: Yeah, from The 3:10 to Yuma on.

JL: Yeah, all the way from the westerns to the latest stuff. And then I’m a real eclectic reader. I read everything. But mostly now, as I say, I’m not reading a lot of fiction.

DB: Because your style is established?

JL: Yeah.

DB: Is there anyone you used as a guide. You’ve been at this twenty years now.

JL: More than that. When I started I was very much a Hemingway fan, you know, I kind of like to follow those rules of style. Not a lot of adjectives and adverbs. A little punchy and make it good, not padded.

DB: As in show don’t tell?

JL: Right. I try to live by those rules. I don’t know who said them but they’re really what make books fun to read.

DB: Is there anyone outside the United States that influenced you?

JL: Well, I majored in the continental novel, in translation, in college, so I did all that Dostoevsky and Tolstoy, Camus, Stendahl, everybody.

DB: But in your field, like Donna Leon

JL: Well, the guy that I truly love the most of everybody, in fiction, is Patrick O’Brien. I mean, he’s not from the United States. I’ve read all his books twice. I’m a nut about him. I’ve got all those other, you know, the books about the books, menus, the places he went. It’s a whole cottage industry. The books about the books and I’ve got them all.

DB: The guy who writes about ships, diagramming and….

JL: Yeah, it’s everything. Good stuff.

DB: I have not yet, but I will, read your very early stuff, Son of Holmes, Rasputin’s Revenge but the other one seems to be out of print.

JL: Oh, you mean Sunburn. You can’t get it.

DB: That book beat out Anne Rice’s for an award!

JL: Yeah, it did, but it might come out again next year. Signet, my paperback house, is making noise that they will bring it out in a paperback edition. It was originally a paperback, but this would be a nice quality paperback edition.

DB: I will look for it.

JL: It’s a little weird. It’s different. No crime element.

DB: Well, that leads to the next question; What made you change direction to this crime, I don’t want to call what you do police procedural, it has some…

JL: No, it’s really not. It’s a long story, quite frankly. I wrote Sunburn. I wrote a novel in college which is not a crime story at all, then when I got out of college I wrote Son of Holmes, right away, within a year of college. But I didn’t submit it. I just wrote it as an exercise, you know, to teach myself to write, if I could sustain a story for a whole novel. So I did, but I didn’t consider myself a mystery writer. I was familiar with the genre through Holmes and Nero Wolfe, and I kind of got that, and I knew I could write that book, with that voice. So I sat down and I wrote that book. But I didn’t do anything with it. I didn’t even try to get an agent for it. I just put it away. Then I was a musician for ten years and traveled the world and did all that kind of fancy stuff. But, I quite being a musician and then I said, “I’m going to write a serious novel,” and I did and I sat down and wrote this very serious, you know, Sunburn, which is literary, it uses all three persons as the narrator and its very Hemingway-esque. It’s set in Spain. So, I did that and then I couldn’t get it published.

DB: Even though you won an award for it?

JL: Yeah, couldn’t get it published. Four years went by and I wrote another book about rock and roll business and set it the sixties, set in San Francisco, Haight-Ashbury and all that. You know, sex, drugs and rock and roll. And that was a non-crime book, no crime element at the time.

DB: Were you living there at the time?

JL. Yeah. And then, after that I don’t know what happened. I had a story in mind that I wanted to write about the Zodiac killer. I wanted to write about the idea that he had gone into retirement and came out again. So I wrote this lengthy book, 750 pages about the Zodiac killer. And the guy who happened to be impacted by him was this guy named Dismas Hardy. But, he wasn’t the Dismas Hardy we know today. But he was close. The book, I don’t know why, but it didn’t sell, I thought it was a pretty good book. It wasn’t a mystery, because there was no doubt about who the Zodiac killer was, but it was kind of this in between thing, of trying to write a really good book that had a plot, it had a very strong plot and you would want to get to the end of it. Nobody bought any of those books, the rock and roll book, the Zodiac book.

DB: Are they around?

JL. No, I don’t think I have it anymore. I have the rock and roll book but with the Zodiac book I started to like this Dismas Hardy character, I started to like the feel of what he was all about., so I wrote most of another book, kind of about him.

DB: When you were doing the Zodiac book did you have a police contact at the time?

JL: I had Al Giannini, from the SF D.A.’s office. He’s been my best friend since we were fourteen. We both went to Serra High School. We were buds. We were on the model U.N. and all that stuff. So he’s been the inside scoop.

DB: But no police officers?

JL: No, but what’s interesting is I got a lot of stuff right, about the Zodiac. Stuff I just made up. And Al was saying, “Wow, this is pretty amazing. How did you know this?” There were things that were not public, you know,

DB: That was a very controversial case, even the investigators on the case became controversial.

JL: Yeah, right. But I was just trying to make a living. I was starving. I was typing twelve hours a day for law firms and then writing in the morning and it wasn’t any fun. So I kept looking for what would turn the key to make it earn a living doing this. And eventually I then, oh , then what happened was, I was 37 years old but I didn’t want to be working day jobs anymore and I’ve got to be published. I said to my wife, I’ve got to quit my job and write a book. She said, “Why don’t you send in that Son of Holmes book? I said, “That’s not what I write. I’m not a mystery writer. I’m a writer writer.
(Laughter on both of our parts) She said, “Well, I really like that book and I think you might have a chance of getting it published.” So I sent it off to New York and I got two offers on it in six weeks. Then they asked for a sequel! And I gave it to them. Then I was writing mysteries. I wrote two and then I wrote Dead Irish because the Holmes thing was a dead end. I knew I couldn’t break any new ground with an old guy, so I resurrected, finally, the Dismas Hardy guy from the Zodiac book and finally I got who Hardy was, and the whole background, with his dead kid and wife and stuff.

DB: What I do like is that you age him. He doesn’t stay static. He goes through time, the whole group around him progresses. But you know so much about the police department, the detail, you got all that from Giannini, you didn’t get it from anybody else?

JL: When I first started, I also was talking to Joe Toomey and to Nap Hendricks. When I did the early books, with Al, we would go to Sam’s and I would take them to lunch and just be a fly on the wall. It usually wasn’t about my books, it was about the case Al was working on and we’d go out.

DB: So, you would go with Al and he would be talking to the investigating inspectors, etc.

JL: Right. And I went to a few witness interrogations and a bunch of really kind of cool stuff. But that was early on to give me kind of a sense of how it worked.

DB: Well, you got it.

JL: Yeah, I think I got it. (Mutual laughter) So, I was much more hands on in the earlier books. Now, I figure I’m drawing from what I got then. I try to keep current. Now, Al is down in Redwood City, and I don’t have that kind of access anymore.

DB: What is your routine? Do you write every day, for a certain number of hours or pages? What do you do?

JL: Well, I’ve had to hand in a book a year for the last sixteen years, in a row.

DB: Wow!

JL: And you know the books are successful, so my publisher wants me to hand in a book on May First every year. So I do. I have the outline for the book on September first, and I do my research between September first and say Christmas. But I’m writing now. On my 2007 book I have 70 pages written.

DB: What does that work out? Do you force yourself to do what, four pages a day?

JL: When I’m in work mode, from mid-December to about May first I’m writing ten pages a day.

DB: Ten pages! That’s a lot of words

JL: It blows my mind. I don’t know how I do it. Honestly, I don’t know how I do it.

DB. I’m glad I’m sitting down. Amazing!

JL: I wrote The Hunt Club, because I had a very hard time finding the voice I wanted to use, I started The Hunt Club in mid-February, I mean I started it five or six times, but I never got it going. I threw away like 350 pages. I started writing the book you read on about February 15th and finished it May first. And I didn’t look up.

DB: So not only do you have a lot of inspiration you have a lot of perspiration into these books.

JL: More perspiration.

DB: And you went to college at Berkeley. Why San Francisco?

JL: I grew up there, in the Peninsula. I went to school for one year at USF before I went to Berkeley and when I got out of school I got a job. I worked for the phone company in San Francisco. Graveyard shift. It was fun. I worked at 666 Polk, the building with the hat on it.

DB: So it was just a matter of that’s what you knew best?

JL. No, because you know, Sunburn is set in Spain, Holmes is set in Provence, France, Raputin’s Revenge is set in St. Petersburg, Russia. They’re all European cities, so when I decided I wanted to write about modern stuff I wanted a European-style city, small enough that you could get your arms around. And then it turns out that San Francisco has all that other really cool, weird stuff. It never ends.

DB: Yeah, even with the things you’ve covered, there’s a lot more out there.

JL: Oh yeah. And when we’re done here you can give me some and I’ll write them down.

DB: Well, you haven’t spent too much time in the Mission District. I haven’t read all your books, but the Mission itself seems to be missing.

JL: I haven’t done much in the Mission.

DB: We’ll talk more later. How familiar do you think you were, when you started out, with the San Francisco Police Department?

JL: Oh, zero. Zero. I mean the first book Dead Irish I didn’t know anything about it, other than what a layman would know.

DB: And you were tending bar at the Shamrock, on Lincoln Ave?

JL: The Shamrock, yeah. So I knew nothing and I just made up stuff. And then Al read the book when I was done and I think he made a few changes, things that just weren’t right. I think, for instance: the homicide room in Dead Irish is not like the real homicide room at the Hall of Justice. It was cubicle, just because I thought it was and I never looked. For The Vig, I started getting a little more serious. Dead Irish got nominated for “Best Mystery Novel by the Shamus people and so I started to think, wow, maybe I should take this more seriously. If I’m going to do it, I might as well get it right. And I didn’t really think about the mystery side of things, or the procedural side, but by the time of The Vig I started to think, “You know, I’m starting to see where I have to go if I want to do this.” So I started doing ride-alongs.

DB: Ride-alongs with Al?

JL: With Al, but also with some of the D.A. investigators and a lot of different people.

DB: So, you do have a bit of an insider’s perspective?

JL: Yeah, I’ve been in enough witness interrogations inside places like Holly Park, you know. I’ve been scared, you know, and I think that’s part of it.

DB: You’ve never been subjected to any negative stuff from the police department?

JL: No. It’s all been positive.

DB: The city has changed quite a bit. Many housing projects have been torn down and changed, except for the Southeast corner of the city, which is still very rough. It’s beyond comprehension. I don’t get it, killing each other every day. What’s the point?

JL: I know. We could extrapolate this out to the world. The last time I checked, this killing thing lasts forever. You kill somebody they stay dead.

DB: To the best of our collective knowledge, no one has come back to say different. Your stories, do they have a basis of, say, eavesdropping on actual cases?

JL: No. Generally speaking what I try to do is try to find a topic that interests me. With Dead Irish and The Vig I didn’t do that. When I first wrote those books I was making no money writing. I was doing full-time other work, and I was just trying to write a story that people would want to read through until the end. I had like a little conceit. Like The Vig, the idea of this guy, one of the things that Al said was never a problem but I never believed he said none of these cons that he put away ever took it out on him or wanted to take it out on him. They weren’t like mad at him. They didn’t like come back and get him went they got out. I guess you would have to have that view if you wanted to do that job. But for example in The Vig, I said, I don’t believe that. I’m going to have this guy come back and want to kill these two guys. You know, they put him in jail for ten years. It would piss me off.

DB: I think Al’s probably right, but the State of California allows retired police officers to carry a concealed weapon for pretty much that exact reason. So you have a point. I think they often come back looking for witnesses.

JL: Al seemed to think they come back after their own defense attorney. That he said happens because they screwed up.

DB: Yeah, and it cost them money.

JL: “Hey, he took my money and didn’t even keep me out of jail!” But what changed in my books, starting with Hard Evidence, that was the first legal thriller, when Hardy went back to the law, starting with that book I changed my style, very consciously, I tried to write with a larger palette, and I tried to deal with bigger issues. I wasn’t just trying to just solve the crime anymore. And that’s what stayed. I got into the characters way more, into their families, I mean the things that I’m more or less known for now, I started doing in Hard Evidence.

DB: So now, you have reached the point with Dismas and your style and now you’re going somewhere else?

JL: Well, I just gave them a break.

DB: That’s it?

JL. I don’t know. He’s going to become the grand old man.

DB: Is there any autobiography with Dismas or other characters?

JL: No. Well, you know, the wife is younger and the kids, that’s similar.

DB: And now, you’re an established fellow and can help out others, like Dismas does.

JL: Yeah.

DB: I just read that you have put up money for an endowment here at Davis.

JL: Yeah, the Maurice Prize. I named it after my dad. So I’m giving $5,000 a year prize to the best work of long fiction of a Davis graduate.

DB: You don’t see you as the Dismas character in that largesse?

JL: No. Dismas is way more proactive than I am. In many ways he’s a loose cannon because that makes him interesting as a character. And I’m just a straight old guy.

DB: My wife and I were recently in the wine country and of course that made me think of your new book, The Hunt Club. There were some great lines, such as, while tasting wines, “What are we looking for here?” “I think we’re looking for red. Yeah, red.” (Mutual laughter) Not only do you enjoy the writing but you took some nice shots at the so-called culture.

JL: Yeah. I like this stuff, I must say.

DB: We have an understanding that we will not release this interview until after January 24, and we won’t, but let’s start with Hunt’s cohort, Juhles.

JL: Shawn Ryan, that’s him. That story was his. You must know him.

DB: Nope, I don’t know him. But in my career I was present for a couple of shoot outs and your description reads true.

JL: Ryan told me this story about getting into a shoot out with a guy with a shotgun, shot the man and got into a lot of heat for it.

DB: That also reads true. The pressures put on San Francisco police officers that other agencies have, are numerous. There’s about four investigations involved in any shooting.

JL: Well, I don’t know how you guys even work. If you want my real opinion, that’s why this thing has so much angst among the cops, because I know the burdens that are put on you that to me are outrageous.

DB: Some cops choose not to work as it’s safer, not many, but that’s the downside of having that kind of environment to work in.

JL: Right!

DB: About Juhles partner, his name? You were serious about naming a guy Gumqui Shiu, or gumshoe, who is a detective? (Laughter)

JL: I did it on purpose and you’re the only guy that’s mentioned it so far. If you can’t have fun with stuff, what are you going to do? (More laughter)

DB: I thought it was funny.

JL: That’s what it was, a joke. I only gave the first name once and if you miss it, you miss it. My editor didn’t even catch it. I mean you gotta have fun with this when you’re writing ten pages a day.

DB: If you ever sat around some inspectors offices like homicide or where I worked at Child Abuse, you hear some awful humor, just to break the horribleness.

JL: I have heard it. With homicide guys and with Al. Gallows humor is part of my life.

DB: There’s another connection between Inspector Shiu, a Mormon, and the bad guy in Dead Irish is a catholic priest. Is there some focus on the negativity of religion or religious people in you work?

JL: Well, read Guilt and you can read about the sex scandals ten years before they became known. There’s a lot of that kind of stuff. I’m not really the most religious of people. I was raised a Catholic, but I don’t really, uh, I think in the great balance of things, if you wanted to say religion has been a good or a bad thing for the human race, just look at the world today and you can make your answer.

DB: Well, as a Catholic kid growing up in Utah, we caught a lot of hell from Mormons. They stoned our bus or spit on us when we played ball. It always felt good to beat BY High.
JL: You know, when you’re writing a book a year, this is not poor me, I love what I do, but the reality is you have to be constantly pushing the envelope a little bit. You have to do things that are fun and that this cop can’t look like any other cop you ever read about. Asian Mormon. That’s unusual

DB: Well, not in Hawaii.

JL: Hawaii, you’re right. And making him so straight-laced, he’s great counter-point to Juhle, and yet he is a bad guy.

DB: Well, there’s a clue early in the book.

JL: Well, you have to put those things in. You have to be fair to your readers, but don’t know why. I feel it makes a better book.

DB: So, is The Hunt Club going to continue after this book?

JL: Hmm, The Hunt Club will be the detective agency that Hardy uses. I used it in the last book, The Motive and I really liked that name. I called up my agent, right in the middle of the book, and asked, “Do you think The Hunt Club would be a good title?” And he said Oh, yeah. He called my publisher and the publisher called me at home and said, “Your next book is The Hunt Club. Figure it out.” We can market the crap out of that.

DB: Yeah. There’s plenty of characters and all kinds of growth just sitting there. Can I make a criticism of the book previous, The Motive.

JL: Yeah, sure.

DB: I had a really hard time with it as it went on, because, to enjoy a novel, or a movie, you have to suspend your disbelief. And having a Deputy Chief of Investigations doing all the leg work for a defense lawyer was driving me crazy.

JL: That’s always been the conflict in those books.

DB: Well, it drove me crazy. I understand that since I haven’t read all of your books, that Hardy and Glitzky have a long, tight relationships, but I couldn’t get there.

JL: Well, the next one you want to read is The Oath, because you’ll see how overt that conflict is. It’s like they almost come to blows. They’re not working together.

DB: How did Giannini feel about all this?

JL: That kind of goes with the territory. I made these guys best friends back when Hardy was a prosecutor, that’s from Hard Evidence. And then as the books go by they’re always involved – they almost never start on the same team or on the same side.

DB: I know. They can’t be.

JL: But they’re best friends!

DB: That happens all the time. In San Francisco, there are several former police officers who are now defense lawyers: Joe O’Sullivan, Jim Collins, and Bill Fazio was a D.A.

JL: I know Bill Fazio. He’s one of my good friends.

DB: Sure, friends can be on either side of the table, or the courtoom, but having a Deputy Chief of Investigations doing legwork for a defense lawyer, I just can’t imagine it.

JL: That’s okay. I can accept that. I can’t do anything about it, though.

DB: The Hunt Club works for me, because they’re outside of the system.

JL: Oh, good. Yeah.

DB: How did you research that?

JL: Well, I talked to David Corbett, who is a private eye, and I talked to a couple of private eyes up here near Sacramento. Probably in all I talked to five or six, who have done that kind of thing. I talked to Robin Brazil, he’s a cop in Sacramento, just for background, really. Not specifics, just run with what I got. I knew I wanted to have Hunt the outside the thing and Juhle being really trying to find it within the standard framework, and it worked.

DB: I think it does. You have the cop trying to keep it within the parameters of the law and…

JL: Yeah, and that’s the conflict between those two guys. Juhle and Hunt go, well, I love the scene when Juhle tells Hunt, you know, they’re sitting outside a mansion, and Juhle says, “What are you doing? This is cop work. Get out of here.”

DB: That could happen and probably does happen frequently. Is that how Hardy will keep appearing, by using the Hunt Club?

JL: You mean in these books? You know, I never know. I’m not trying to be coy with you. It’s got to be the story. The story I’m doing now is Geena Row, I don’t know if you have read the books she’s in, but she’s in a lot of them but always a very small character, but now she’s become a partner in the firm with Hardy. In this book she’s going to take a murder case of a guy that’s accused of killing his wife. That’s the main thrust of this book. But I don’t know what Hardy’s going to do in it. He may not be in it at all.

DB: Give him a rest?

JL: The good news about writing The Hunt Club is it made me – it’s a legitimate book in itself that I think it would make people say, hey this guy doesn’t have to write about Hardy to be interesting. So I wanted to kind of get away from Hardy because he was getting a little long in the tooth. Plus, the Glitzky, Hardy thing gets to be redundant. They’ve done it thirteen times.

DB: Do you have any movie offers?

JL: The 13th Juror is right now, it’s a twelve-year old book, but it’s actually getting close. It’s optioned, and I have had six options on the books but this one is, by the time you get this article into print it might be completely dead or it might have moved along the “go track.” They have the actor Jim Caviziel, who did The Passion of The Christ. He’s a good actor and he’s looking for a less controversial, more solid leading m man role, he’s read the screenplay and he likes it.

DB: How much longer on the contract for those one-a-year books?

JL: It’s a three book deal I have now, and the book I’m writing now is the third book

DB: Does that kind of pressure make you better or worse?

JL: Both. I mean it’s very difficult sometimes

DB: Would the success of a movie change you?

JL: That won’t bother me. I was older when I got successful. I was already pretty jaded about the whole world. I didn’t start making any money in this until I was forty-five. That’s a long time to try to be living on beans, typing for lawyers, which is what I did.

DB: I sincerely whish you luck. A little just reward.

JL: It’s all interesting. You know, the pressure is real, to come out with a new book each year is real pressure. You know you’re being read, which is what you want so you have to rise to it. You have to keep wits sharp. It’s your job. Don’t forget that the writing business is a business!

DB: Doing ten pages a day, I think it would be hard to keep your wits sharp. I’m still in awe of that figure.

JL: The thing that boggles my mind, this is the 18th one I’m writing, some of the ones in the middle of the series were 700 pages long, and when I look at the shelf of those books, I say, “I wrote all of those words” It’s hard to believe.

DB: Do you find that it’s more common among starting writers, that they write longer books?

JL: No. The book tends to be the length it wants to be.

DB: I have met some cops who want to write and the books are gaudy and over-written.

JL: Yeah, a lot of times they use a lot of words that they don’t need. And they do a lot of stuff that doesn’t advance the plot. That’s something I think you get good at if you have published fifteen or sixteen books. “This scene is extraneous, this scene is ridiculous to have in the book.” Of course, my words are sacred. (mutual laughter)

DB: That’s a hard thing, isn’t it?

JL: Yeah. But you’ve got to do it. You must do it.

DB: Yeah, and it’s necessary, but if I fight to keep something it must be important, but I can be wrong about that too.

JL: That’s exactly right.

DB: I don’t fight as much as I used to. (Mutual laughter, again)

The rest of the interview drifted off into personal views of many different things, particularly being married and raising children. Lescroart has two children, one of whom began Harvard University this past September.
Two things were made clear by Lescroart: He appreciated all of his dealings with the SFPD and particularly with Giannini and Giannini’s D.A. friends. He recalled a night he had been invited to a few drinks and dinner with several of these people who were covering and discussing the Scott Peterson trial. He referred to the evening as “magic,” with the conversation filled with highly intelligent, astute legal observations and arguments.